[DavidG]

Any particular reason why a Model 9? The Longstroke engine won the TT in 1923, remember, and my old 1929 sidevalver would see off a few ohv ones, at least up to 60mph.

[Rick Parkington]

Fair comment Russ, but I guess the reason I look at it this way is that when I was in my teens/early 20s and into British bikes, nearly everybody I knew my age was into Japanese bikes and thought British bikes were shite, and apart from my best mate nobody my age had any interest in prewar stuff, Brooklands era etc - not that any of us could afford that stuff then.
But there are loads of people my age into it now - probably mostly guys who lost interest in the performance race and looked round for something more involving, so who's to say the same won't happen with the current generation? It'll never be more than a niche interest - it never has been; even the VMCC's peak 16,000 membership is pretty tiny out of a population of 65,000,000 and before the cheap insurance deals boosted membership it was averaged out more like 5000.
But I agree prices are likely to quiver a bit and I hope you get your Model 9 - I had to cough up for my '28 but I don't regret it, I love it!
Cheers R

[Russ]

you maybe right....but from what I've seen it takes a special type of rider in a certain age bracket to own and ride a 20's / 30's machine a person that appreciates the mechanical involvement and interaction of man and machine most of the younger generation don't care how it works or why they just want to jump straight on it (or in it) turn the key rev the nuts of it from cold and tear up the road in the style of Valentino Rossi which I guess you can do on modern machinery these days the thought of having to take 5 minutes or so to run pre-ride checks is an anathema to them let alone trying to get one started and then there's the preconception of reliability the thought of riding a 120 mile round trip at less than 90mph doesn't sit well with them let alone doing it on a Vintage bike at 50mph and without it breaking down and having to exercise roadside mechanics is again something most younger people don't want to or can't do...I accept there are the odd exception me (LOL) you and your mates but most aren't interested like most of my mates......60's / 70's and even 80's seem to be the era of machines in demand it's the category of bikes that the now older generation grew up with or who weren't quite old enough at the time to own they're the bikes most in demand but they're being made more reliable with the replacement of points with Electronic ignition systems to bolster reliability....you've only got to look at the values of the 70's Japanese 2 stroke stuff or the 60's re-imported Triumph US spec' bikes......don't get me wrong I love my '29 Norton but they are becoming more and more niche....I hardly see any Vintage machinery on a Sunday morning at my local greasy spoon.....having said that there were 2x '47 custom Harley bobbers there.....but you really can't count them....LOL......anyway I'm firmly in the Vintage camp no one needs to convince me I love them so I'm still after that elusive 27/28 Sunbeam 9 cash waiting for the right bike at the right price.....LOL

[Rick Parkington]

Sorry to come in on this so late but I have to say I disagree with the view that there is no future for girder fork bikes.
The VMCC have tied themselves into this philosophy very heavily with the idea that 1990s bikes have to be promoted to encourage young members but in truth all the young people I speak to have no interest in 1990s bikes. They either like new bikes or, if they are into retro stuff, they like stuff from the 70s or before - especially Triumph twins because of the cool image of Steve McQueen Clint Eastwood etc.
There is definitely a missing generation in motorcycling - people in the 35 to 45 bracket just didn't take it up as kids due to a variety of causes - start of the internet, hugely restrictive and difficult licensing etc - and so are not coming back to it again older and looking for something they remember.
Thankfully there is a young generation of riders again and probably because of the internet again, they are more interested in the whole vintage or retro thing. The 'hipster' movement is very maligned but it does welcome old , quirky things and I have noticed a lot of young people recognise that many of the 'environmental' ideas like electric cars are really commercialism and it's always less damaging to repair the old than make new. These attitudes have tended  to make young people more old bike friendly than they have been in my lifetime, it's just a matter of getting them to try the bikes and see if they want to own them - and stop being greedy with prices.

A 25 year old mate of mine often borrows my '28 Model 9 and loves it. I've told him to give it the beans - he treats it with respect but doesn't hang about. His 27 year old brother loves my '36 Rudge Ulster. The pity of it is neither of them have the money to buy even a basket case, both have built their own 500cc Triumphs from bits and use them as daily bikes but even if they sold both they'd be lucky to get enough money to buy a scrap 9 or Ulster project.

A 54 year old may well laugh at a girder fork bike, but let him ride it (if he's game to risk making a fool of himself) and he might not. I have been letting people ride my 'valuable vintage classics' for decades and modern bike riders have never come back laughing. They are either surprised at how good they actually are or scared witless at the lack of brakes and 'safety features'.

There is a perception that the only old bikes people want are the bikes they had, or dreamed of, as lads. If that is so then why are Sunbeams and all vintage/prewar bikes so valuable now? Nobody alive bought one of those new. The 'bike I had as a lad'  is what gets people into old bikes, from there they either stick with it (my Dad is still a Triumph man and never really took to my vintage stuff) or they go back in time and start looking at older bikes - this happens in most hobbies. You start with the easy familiar stuff and then get curious about what came before.
The bike I wouldn't want to buy now is the £5,000 Yamaha FS1E, once my generation are gone who is going to see any value in some daft old moped? When I was sixteen we couldn't wait to get rid of them, pass our tests and get proper bikes but some crazy nostalgia has made many 50 somethings desperate to get back on one!

If you want to keep it all going, let people ride your old bike and make up their own minds. I knew a lot of people who were precious and unwelcoming when I was in my teens but there were a few people - Archie Beggs is a great example - who talked to me with interest and respect and trusted me to ride their bikes and I thank...or do I mean blame?...them for getting me hopelessly addicted for thelast 40 years.
Right that's that off my chest!
cheers Rick

[Russ]

Here's thought, don't pay daft prices for old bikes, sooner or later they will have to drop quite considerably.
A lot of us old blokes won't be around for much longer, kids are not interested.

heirs generally just want some cash to buy some fancy german tank, won't be inclined to sit on them.
That at  least is my experience, mine will be up for sale when I need to buy a mobility scooter.

I look at the greedy dealers and honestly shake my head....afterall I'm not sure why anyone would pay 33% more because it's from a dealer I mean why would you? it's not like you get a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty with it is it....most dealer bikes are still sold as seen anyway but dealer pricing seems to dictate the market and unfortunately this falsely encourages private sellers to follow suit.....like you say though it seems to be a bit of dying market....I love the old prewar stuff but my mate just laughs his socks off at Prewar Girder fork stuff.....he's 54....I'm guessing that's quite young as far as Vintage machine ownership goes but he wont be buying one anytime soon so it's starting to look like they'll be no one to sell to in the near future.....hows about £9k and a mobility scooter for your 27 model 9....LOL

[kbryt]

Here's thought, don't pay daft prices for old bikes, sooner or later they will have to drop quite considerably.
A lot of us old blokes won't be around for much longer, kids are not interested.

heirs generally just want some cash to buy some fancy german tank, won't be inclined to sit on them.
That at  least is my experience, mine will be up for sale when I need to buy a mobility scooter.

[Russ]

Hi Russ
Well how long is a piece of string? I am no expert but if the bike is very original and in good nick then a minimum of £9000 and maybe up to £15000 if there is good history with the bike. Paul Hutton would be a good guy to talk to.
Graham

thanks Graham......yeah I get the string thing......I have heard figures of £17k to £18k but these values must be dealer values.....so £21k would be ludicrous wouldn't it?....I guess at the end of the day a bike will only be worth what someone is willing to pay for it but it's nice to get a starting figure just to balance the equation somewhat.....anyone on here willing to sell their matching numbers 1927 model 9 for £14k.......LOL

[shorrog]

Hi Russ
Well how long is a piece of string? I am no expert but if the bike is very original and in good nick then a minimum of £9000 and maybe up to £15000 if there is good history with the bike. Paul Hutton would be a good guy to talk to.
Graham

[Russ]

ok chaps bearing in mind I'm a Norton man.....(waits for a roasting....LOL) what would you (I) pay for one if by chance you should be offered one......matching numbers and in top condition.....hopefully I'll find enough dosh down the back of the sofa (it's a 30's chesterfield so reasonably big)....LOL.....then I can become legit o the forum