Which Oil Grade? Which Grease? Which Tyres?

Started by Tiddler, March 10, 2017, 08:59:15 PM

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Tiddler

Hello singleminded,
Thanks once again for the good advice. The carb is level and I plan to strip the it at the next opportunity to see what's causing the flooding and suppose that a rebuild kit would be a good buy to get the carburetor into a good, known state. I don't think there is an oil tap fitted, where would it be located if there was one?
Regards,
Paul
1936 Sunbeam 250 Semi Sports
1926 Raleigh-JAP 350 Special
1958 Norton ES2
1969 Triumph Bonneville
1969 Bultaco Matador Mk3
1994 Honda CBR 600F
2011 Ducati Monster 796

singleminded

As long as you have return flow don't worry too much, It will also depend on what setting the 3 way oil tap is set (if you have one that is)the largest hole in the tap is only about 1/16th ,if that,and number 1 is the smallest and is teensy. As Steve has said these engines need very little oil to keep them going, the design has hardly changed from the total loss engines fitted earlier.
Fit a new float from Burlen,the old brass floats can leak and then they no longer float, also make sure that the carb is level. If the carb is rotated too much anticlockwise it will run weak and run rich or flood if too far clockwise looking from the bell mouth, when you think about it by rotating a float chamber that is so far from the center of the carb you can see that the fuel level can be varied a fair bit(in carburation terrms anyway).
Stripping the carb will let you see if any new parts are required and get rid of any old crap that may be lurking.

Tiddler

Hello Singleminded, I checked today and the oil is returning, slowly. It's not like my Norton where the returning oil returns in irregular spurts, more a steady dribble. I;ll clean the pipes and filters anyway to see if that makes a difference. However, it seems that the petrol float or the valve are stuck as the petrol overflows from the carburettor reservoir so I will have to check that out first.
Regards,
Paul
1936 Sunbeam 250 Semi Sports
1926 Raleigh-JAP 350 Special
1958 Norton ES2
1969 Triumph Bonneville
1969 Bultaco Matador Mk3
1994 Honda CBR 600F
2011 Ducati Monster 796

singleminded

On my 9A when the oil returns it is just a gentle overflow down the vertical return pipe in the tank..John

Tiddler

Hello Steve,
Thanks very much for the advice. One of my friends is coming to visit me tomorrow morning so I'll get him to lend a hand to see if the return pump is working ok. I shone a torch inside the oil tank yesterday afternoon and the oil doesn't seem to be emulsified after all so I think it will be ok to start the bike up again and run it for a few minutes at low revs to check things out.
Regards,
Paul
1936 Sunbeam 250 Semi Sports
1926 Raleigh-JAP 350 Special
1958 Norton ES2
1969 Triumph Bonneville
1969 Bultaco Matador Mk3
1994 Honda CBR 600F
2011 Ducati Monster 796

Greybeard

More of a pulsating trickle than a definite squirt at tickover, but definitely visible. A torch can be useful depending on how well the return pipe is shaded  :) The feed to the bottom end isnt much more than a steady drip under quite low pressure. Being roller bearings thats all they need. The return flow is a bit stronger than the feed as that side of the pump is bigger to help keep the crankcase clear, so can suck up air too as the oil level in the sump drops. The occasional bubble isnt unusual in my experience.

Steve
1916 Triumph Model H
1926 AJS G8 500cc ohv
1937 Sunbeam Lion 500cc
1937 Ariel 500cc
1949 Matchless G80S
1952 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1953 Matchless G9
1953 BSA B31
1961 Matchless G80
1961 AJS M31 De Luxe 650cc
1961 Panther M120 650cc
BMWs R100RT - R80 - 1960 Earles fork R60
1960 Rover P4

Tiddler

Hello Ian,
Thanks for your reply. I let the engine idle for a few minutes while I was checking for oil returning to the tank, should the oil spurt into the tank or is it just a slow dribble which I might not see? The smoke from wet sumping did clear quite quickly, so perhaps I'm being over-anxious!
Kind regards,
Paul
1936 Sunbeam 250 Semi Sports
1926 Raleigh-JAP 350 Special
1958 Norton ES2
1969 Triumph Bonneville
1969 Bultaco Matador Mk3
1994 Honda CBR 600F
2011 Ducati Monster 796

iansoady

It does normally take a while before you see any return flow as the oil has to fill all the intervening pipework etc. Plus of course if the engine has been drained, it will need to run for long enough for the feed side of the pump to send enough oil through to drain down into the crankcase.

Tiddler

Hello Greybeard,
I had intended to clean out the oil tank, filters and pipes with petrol prior to actually using it as I suspect the oil has emulsified due to condensation. When I briefly ran the engine there was no apparent stream of oil coming back to the tank despite the oil pressure indicator popping out to indicate that there was pressure in the system. This could indicate a blocked filter or return pipe I suppose, not surprising considering the length of time it has sat unused. Thanks for the tip about using the kickstart to check oil flow, I'll do that to check and prime the system before I start it next.
Regards,
Paul
1936 Sunbeam 250 Semi Sports
1926 Raleigh-JAP 350 Special
1958 Norton ES2
1969 Triumph Bonneville
1969 Bultaco Matador Mk3
1994 Honda CBR 600F
2011 Ducati Monster 796

Greybeard

I'd suggest taking the oil tank off and giving it a thorough clean along with the oil lines if you weren't already intending to do that. When i did the B31 Beezer, which had ostensibly been restored, I was amazed how much of the old piston had settled out in the bottom of the tank. I would also recommend taking out the plug and spending some time on the kickstart lever until you see oil returning to the tank. It takes a while but  think it's worth it   ;)

Steve
1916 Triumph Model H
1926 AJS G8 500cc ohv
1937 Sunbeam Lion 500cc
1937 Ariel 500cc
1949 Matchless G80S
1952 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1953 Matchless G9
1953 BSA B31
1961 Matchless G80
1961 AJS M31 De Luxe 650cc
1961 Panther M120 650cc
BMWs R100RT - R80 - 1960 Earles fork R60
1960 Rover P4

Tiddler

Hello Greybeard and singleminded,
Thank you both very much for your replies, I will have a look at those tyres which you suggest and the semi-fluid grease. I have a gallon of Castrol XXL40 Monograde which I will try, the bike hasn't been used for about 20 years so a flush out with that won't do any harm and then I'll replace it with the GP50 once the ambient temperature gets a bit higher.
Regards,
Paul
1936 Sunbeam 250 Semi Sports
1926 Raleigh-JAP 350 Special
1958 Norton ES2
1969 Triumph Bonneville
1969 Bultaco Matador Mk3
1994 Honda CBR 600F
2011 Ducati Monster 796

Greybeard

Hello, Tiddler.
With regard to tyres, last year I fitted Ensign tyres from Vintage Tyre Supplies to all my 30s and 50s bikes as the tread pattern looks to be a close copy of the original fitments. I've had no complaints about handling on them - and who rides an old bike like a new un anyway  ;)
http://www.vintagetyres.com/products/motorcycle-tyres/motorcycle-standard--wired-on-/ensign
There's a good selection of sizes and the prices aren't daft either. VTS do sell on ebay and often have decent offers on when you buy a pair (or more  ::) )
As Singleminded says, I prefer a straight oil (Castrol GP50) for my bikes with a roller bearing bottom end - only my (or more accurately, my late dad's) '53 Matchless G9 has plain bearings and that gets a 20/50. The 'Beam's Burman box, which I rebuilt at huge expense in 2015, gets Penrite semi-fluid grease with a splash of SAE 140 for good measure.

Steve
1916 Triumph Model H
1926 AJS G8 500cc ohv
1937 Sunbeam Lion 500cc
1937 Ariel 500cc
1949 Matchless G80S
1952 BSA A10 Golden Flash
1953 Matchless G9
1953 BSA B31
1961 Matchless G80
1961 AJS M31 De Luxe 650cc
1961 Panther M120 650cc
BMWs R100RT - R80 - 1960 Earles fork R60
1960 Rover P4

singleminded

I think you'll find most people will recommend straight grade oil.
if you have a Burman foot change gearbox then use semi liquid grease. It is almost impossible to stop them leaking completely, but semi liquid grease will leak less.
The original fill is with grease but this can solidify and get flung to the outside of the box leaving the gears and bushes dry,not good.to overcome this Burman suggested adding a little oil now and again..I use Morris 140 straightcut gear oil but will change this to semi-liquid grease when I next have the box apart.
If you have a handchange Sunbeam box then engine oil is usually recommended.John

Tiddler

I'm new to the club and to Sunbeams in general, so please bear with me!

I have a 1936 250 Semi-Sports which has not been on the road for 20 years so it obviously needs a bit of a service prior to being used. Can anyone tell me if I should use a Monograde 50 or 40 oil or would a classic 20/50 be better? I am looking at the Castrol products at the moment as they claim to have a high Zinc content for better protection.

Which grease(s) should I use for the girder forks, gear box, valve rockers etc etc?

Which 3.00 x 21 front tyres are available? I can only find Avon Speedmasters but don't really want to use them as I had many a moment on them back in the day. There is an old ribbed Dunlop on it at the moment but it's certainly not in the first flush of youth despite having plenty of tread left.

Will a 350 x 19 tyre fit in the back? There seems to be a better selection available compared to a 325 x 19 which is the original size.

Sorry if this is a bit of a list, but if anyone knows the answer to any or all of my questions please reply as I assure you it will be greatly appreciated.
Regards, Paul
1936 Sunbeam 250 Semi Sports
1926 Raleigh-JAP 350 Special
1958 Norton ES2
1969 Triumph Bonneville
1969 Bultaco Matador Mk3
1994 Honda CBR 600F
2011 Ducati Monster 796